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	<title>Comments for Polynormalcy</title>
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	<link>http://polynormalcy.com</link>
	<description>The thoughts and opinions of a polyamorous white male </description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:03:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on My little demon: My struggle with the human animal by Julie</title>
		<link>http://polynormalcy.com/?p=35#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polynormalcy.com/?p=35#comment-8</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your thoughts on jealousy are interesting and I did enjoy being able to look at things from your perspective.  However, I think I there are two main issues that, in my opinion, were left out of this look into jealousy as a human emotion.  

First, and foremost, jealously is often (not always, but, in my experience, a HELL of a lot of the time) created from feelings of inadequacy. What does s/he have they I don&#039;t?  Why does s/he like them more? Does s/he not care about me?  Is s/he prettier? More interesting? Better in bed?  Most people will admit to feeling/thinking these thoughts from time to time. I think that recognizing feelings of inadequacy and unpacking them is not only fundamental to being able to cope with feelings of jealously in poly relationships, but monogamous as well.  If Partner A is always thinking that aren&#039;t good enough for Partner B (such as is often the case in a monogamous relationships) or another person, Partner C, is better for them, then I think conflict is inevitable.  Being able to not only realize, but accept, that it&#039;s NOT about what you cannot offer, but instead about what you DO bring to the table does lot to mitigate feeling of jealously that stem from feelings of inadequacy.  

Secondly, I think that in poly relationships, jealousy can often come from misplaced egos.  Thinking &quot;why isn&#039;t this person doing/saying x,y, or z with me?&quot; but is doing x,y, or z with another person can lead to jealousy.  News flash: It&#039;s not all about you.  Learning to accept that you&#039;re important to your other partners, regardless if you&#039;re the first, or second, or third in importance can do a lot of challenge feelings of jealous.  For me, the bottom line is does this partner make me happy?  Are they living up to the expectations/responsibilities we&#039;ve established? If the answer is yes, then what does it matter what they&#039;re doing with other people?  And if you&#039;re feeling left out or mistreated, then perhaps it&#039;s time to visit point 1 above (ie are you feeling jealous because you&#039;re feeling down on yourself/inadequate?)

This may not being the case for everyone out there.  But for me, more often then not, if I&#039;m experiencing feeling of jealousy, it usually has more to do with my own self-doubt and ego than any one thing (or person) my partner is or is not doing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your thoughts on jealousy are interesting and I did enjoy being able to look at things from your perspective.  However, I think I there are two main issues that, in my opinion, were left out of this look into jealousy as a human emotion.  </p>
<p>First, and foremost, jealously is often (not always, but, in my experience, a HELL of a lot of the time) created from feelings of inadequacy. What does s/he have they I don&#8217;t?  Why does s/he like them more? Does s/he not care about me?  Is s/he prettier? More interesting? Better in bed?  Most people will admit to feeling/thinking these thoughts from time to time. I think that recognizing feelings of inadequacy and unpacking them is not only fundamental to being able to cope with feelings of jealously in poly relationships, but monogamous as well.  If Partner A is always thinking that aren&#8217;t good enough for Partner B (such as is often the case in a monogamous relationships) or another person, Partner C, is better for them, then I think conflict is inevitable.  Being able to not only realize, but accept, that it&#8217;s NOT about what you cannot offer, but instead about what you DO bring to the table does lot to mitigate feeling of jealously that stem from feelings of inadequacy.  </p>
<p>Secondly, I think that in poly relationships, jealousy can often come from misplaced egos.  Thinking &#8220;why isn&#8217;t this person doing/saying x,y, or z with me?&#8221; but is doing x,y, or z with another person can lead to jealousy.  News flash: It&#8217;s not all about you.  Learning to accept that you&#8217;re important to your other partners, regardless if you&#8217;re the first, or second, or third in importance can do a lot of challenge feelings of jealous.  For me, the bottom line is does this partner make me happy?  Are they living up to the expectations/responsibilities we&#8217;ve established? If the answer is yes, then what does it matter what they&#8217;re doing with other people?  And if you&#8217;re feeling left out or mistreated, then perhaps it&#8217;s time to visit point 1 above (ie are you feeling jealous because you&#8217;re feeling down on yourself/inadequate?)</p>
<p>This may not being the case for everyone out there.  But for me, more often then not, if I&#8217;m experiencing feeling of jealousy, it usually has more to do with my own self-doubt and ego than any one thing (or person) my partner is or is not doing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Poly Myths: Busted by Link Miscellany: -isms and -ists &#187; Ashley Miller</title>
		<link>http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Link Miscellany: -isms and -ists &#187; Ashley Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-7</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] polyamory myths debunked. (Credit to [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] polyamory myths debunked. (Credit to [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on My little demon: My struggle with the human animal by M.</title>
		<link>http://polynormalcy.com/?p=35#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 17:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polynormalcy.com/?p=35#comment-6</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sure it&#039;ll come as a terrible shock that I&#039;m leaving this comment, what with the fact that I flat out told you I would, but:

I know you&#039;re using the example of the caveman, and the whole violent-dawn-of-time thing in order to better illustrate the idea of a vestigial trait. Which is quite nice in its own evocative way, but I think it&#039;s pretty unfair to make blanket statements about the darker times of civilization in a post about one aspect of human relationships. You imply that Ye Olde Cave Days were a horrible amalgam of violence and jealousy, when in fact, there is evidence pointing to the fact that our more hirsute ancestors lived in perfectly functional communities wherein monogamy WASN&#039;T the norm. 

All of your points about jealousy as it exists for *you* are perfectly valid and I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve sorted it out in your head. But there&#039;s a heavy implication here that the &#039;overcoming&#039; jealousy is somehow more evolved that whatever came before. Which, if what came before was polyamorous/polygamous social units, is not particularly true. There are arguments to be made for how monogamy isn&#039;t the default state of being for people, and how it came about as a result of the shift from living as hunter-gatherers to living by means of agriculture. I can&#039;t claim with absolute certainty that this is TOTALLY how it happened, and every other theory is wrong - but I can cite my sources and make a decent argument for why it&#039;s entirely possible.

And the point of my saying so is to draw attention to the fact that you&#039;re presenting a VERY simplified and stereotypical example of the role of jealousy in human interactions throughout time. Which, I&#039;m pretty sure you didn&#039;t set out to make this about the history of feelings, but you chose to use the example of cavemen and their violent ways, and if you&#039;re going to throw that around, you might as well strive to step beyond the simplified stereotype, no matter how well it illustrates your point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;ll come as a terrible shock that I&#8217;m leaving this comment, what with the fact that I flat out told you I would, but:</p>
<p>I know you&#8217;re using the example of the caveman, and the whole violent-dawn-of-time thing in order to better illustrate the idea of a vestigial trait. Which is quite nice in its own evocative way, but I think it&#8217;s pretty unfair to make blanket statements about the darker times of civilization in a post about one aspect of human relationships. You imply that Ye Olde Cave Days were a horrible amalgam of violence and jealousy, when in fact, there is evidence pointing to the fact that our more hirsute ancestors lived in perfectly functional communities wherein monogamy WASN&#8217;T the norm. </p>
<p>All of your points about jealousy as it exists for *you* are perfectly valid and I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve sorted it out in your head. But there&#8217;s a heavy implication here that the &#8216;overcoming&#8217; jealousy is somehow more evolved that whatever came before. Which, if what came before was polyamorous/polygamous social units, is not particularly true. There are arguments to be made for how monogamy isn&#8217;t the default state of being for people, and how it came about as a result of the shift from living as hunter-gatherers to living by means of agriculture. I can&#8217;t claim with absolute certainty that this is TOTALLY how it happened, and every other theory is wrong &#8211; but I can cite my sources and make a decent argument for why it&#8217;s entirely possible.</p>
<p>And the point of my saying so is to draw attention to the fact that you&#8217;re presenting a VERY simplified and stereotypical example of the role of jealousy in human interactions throughout time. Which, I&#8217;m pretty sure you didn&#8217;t set out to make this about the history of feelings, but you chose to use the example of cavemen and their violent ways, and if you&#8217;re going to throw that around, you might as well strive to step beyond the simplified stereotype, no matter how well it illustrates your point.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Poly Myths: Busted by Jane</title>
		<link>http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 00:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-5</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think we fundamentally agree, and are more quibbling over context. I&#039;m coming at this with an audience in mind of the monogamous people who have the &quot;WAO WHAT IS THAT&quot; mindset rather than those of us experienced in the ins and outs of polyamory. 

So cheating, in a monogamous person&#039;s mind, would mean generally &quot;going to bump uglies with someone else&quot; or &quot;being romantic with someone else&quot;. This is tricky to really screw the pooch on in poly relationships as they tend to be more forgiving &lt;em&gt;in that realm&lt;/em&gt;. In other realms, like communication, it&#039;s actually a lot easier to fuck it up, and I&#039;ve heard of situations that have bordered on inadvertent cheating because boundaries weren&#039;t clear.

Maybe with the natural guilt response, I&#039;m putting too much faith in people in poly relationships not being jerkwads to each other, but you make a good point with the strength of &quot;it&#039;s so &lt;em&gt;wrong&lt;/em&gt; but it feels so &lt;em&gt;right&lt;/em&gt;&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we fundamentally agree, and are more quibbling over context. I&#8217;m coming at this with an audience in mind of the monogamous people who have the &#8220;WAO WHAT IS THAT&#8221; mindset rather than those of us experienced in the ins and outs of polyamory. </p>
<p>So cheating, in a monogamous person&#8217;s mind, would mean generally &#8220;going to bump uglies with someone else&#8221; or &#8220;being romantic with someone else&#8221;. This is tricky to really screw the pooch on in poly relationships as they tend to be more forgiving <em>in that realm</em>. In other realms, like communication, it&#8217;s actually a lot easier to fuck it up, and I&#8217;ve heard of situations that have bordered on inadvertent cheating because boundaries weren&#8217;t clear.</p>
<p>Maybe with the natural guilt response, I&#8217;m putting too much faith in people in poly relationships not being jerkwads to each other, but you make a good point with the strength of &#8220;it&#8217;s so <em>wrong</em> but it feels so <em>right</em>&#8220;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Poly Myths: Busted by Ripley</title>
		<link>http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Ripley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 00:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-4</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My response comes from the fact that your phrase on the difficulty of cheating in poly relationships is seated as #2&#039;s thesis, and as a thesis it is flawed.
I am still going to quibble your word choice. Specifically &quot;difficult&quot; and &quot;natural guilt response.&quot;

&quot;Difficulty&quot; is determined by communication, and while it might seem shocking to some, the number of Poly people I have met who don&#039;t communicate in the most helpful fashion is great enough for me to think this is less a poly thing and more of an overall communication thing. The it&#039;s-so-wrong-it-makes-me-horny mindset still exists in the poly lifestyle, and if that is what gets Sally Sexual and Bobby Boner hot and bothered, the &quot;natural guilt response&quot; is nothing more than fuel in the fire. If &quot;natural guilt response&quot; were truly a thing, you&#039;d think religion would actually work in creating good wholesome folk. (I could further quibble &#039;natural guilt response,&#039; but there is only so much Freud/Catholicism I can stomach in a single sitting.) 
I understand for the purposes of this blog we appear to be approaching the concept of Poly from the far end of the &quot;wtf is that&quot; spectrum--- But I have never found painting in black and white to be that helpful. Communication with ones partner(s) is the key point here, not trying to &quot;fix&quot; a pattern of cheating/transgressions through Poly/open when the real issue is communication--- which is a misconception I have quite often seen people fall into. (No really, and oh jeebus does it get annoying).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My response comes from the fact that your phrase on the difficulty of cheating in poly relationships is seated as #2&#8242;s thesis, and as a thesis it is flawed.<br />
I am still going to quibble your word choice. Specifically &#8220;difficult&#8221; and &#8220;natural guilt response.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Difficulty&#8221; is determined by communication, and while it might seem shocking to some, the number of Poly people I have met who don&#8217;t communicate in the most helpful fashion is great enough for me to think this is less a poly thing and more of an overall communication thing. The it&#8217;s-so-wrong-it-makes-me-horny mindset still exists in the poly lifestyle, and if that is what gets Sally Sexual and Bobby Boner hot and bothered, the &#8220;natural guilt response&#8221; is nothing more than fuel in the fire. If &#8220;natural guilt response&#8221; were truly a thing, you&#8217;d think religion would actually work in creating good wholesome folk. (I could further quibble &#8216;natural guilt response,&#8217; but there is only so much Freud/Catholicism I can stomach in a single sitting.)<br />
I understand for the purposes of this blog we appear to be approaching the concept of Poly from the far end of the &#8220;wtf is that&#8221; spectrum&#8212; But I have never found painting in black and white to be that helpful. Communication with ones partner(s) is the key point here, not trying to &#8220;fix&#8221; a pattern of cheating/transgressions through Poly/open when the real issue is communication&#8212; which is a misconception I have quite often seen people fall into. (No really, and oh jeebus does it get annoying).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Poly Myths: Busted by Jane</title>
		<link>http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 23:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-3</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Which is what I elaborated into. It&#039;s more difficult, realistically, when you have explicitly established rules to break them, both because they&#039;re very clear and because humans have a natural guilt response to doing such things unless the human in question lacks empathy.

It makes it harder to cheat by nonexclusivity, but that&#039;s not what we&#039;re referring to.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which is what I elaborated into. It&#8217;s more difficult, realistically, when you have explicitly established rules to break them, both because they&#8217;re very clear and because humans have a natural guilt response to doing such things unless the human in question lacks empathy.</p>
<p>It makes it harder to cheat by nonexclusivity, but that&#8217;s not what we&#8217;re referring to.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Poly Myths: Busted by Ripley</title>
		<link>http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Ripley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 22:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://polynormalcy.com/?p=25#comment-2</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Here’s a pretty open secret: It’s really hard to cheat in poly relationships.&quot;

This is not an accurate presentation of cheating. Cheating is not exclusively about creating the monster with two backs, but is about breaking an established trust with your partner/partners. Just because a relationship is set up to make shagging other people possible/plausible does -not- in any way make cheating harder. Cheating is inherently a choice to break a rule that has been established--- whether that is about getting your freak on, using protection, or simply not verbalizing who you have been with, poly does not make cheating harder in the same way that locking your front door does not (necessarily) make your home safer. If there is a will, there is a way... and windows.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Here’s a pretty open secret: It’s really hard to cheat in poly relationships.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is not an accurate presentation of cheating. Cheating is not exclusively about creating the monster with two backs, but is about breaking an established trust with your partner/partners. Just because a relationship is set up to make shagging other people possible/plausible does -not- in any way make cheating harder. Cheating is inherently a choice to break a rule that has been established&#8212; whether that is about getting your freak on, using protection, or simply not verbalizing who you have been with, poly does not make cheating harder in the same way that locking your front door does not (necessarily) make your home safer. If there is a will, there is a way&#8230; and windows.</p>
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